Jivana Heyman 14:02:51
Hi everyone, its Jivana. I just want to come on for a moment and thank our sponsor, Offering Tree. They're an all in one easy to use community back business that saves you time, energy and money as a Yoga teacher. Offering Tree allows you to create a website in less than 30 minutes. Plus you get a discount through Accessible Yoga. Just go to offeringtree.com/accessibleyoga to get your discount today. Okay, here's our episode.
Tristan Katz 14:03:21
Hi, my name is Tristan Katz. My pronouns are they and sometimes he. As a member of the Board of Directors at the Accessible Yoga Association for the last several years, and a lover of podcasts in general, I'm honored to be taking over The Love of Yoga Podcast for Anjali Rao this summer. For those who aren't familiar with me and my work, I'm a digital strategist and equity inclusion facilitator specializing in marketing through a justice and equity lens, and Trans competency training and consulting. I'm a writer and editor, a dog parent, and a longtime practitioner of Yoga. I began studying Yoga in 2000, over 20 years ago now, and I've since taken countless trainings, and I taught Yoga myself in outreach settings for several years. Over the course of our upcoming episodes, I'll be hosting conversations with a variety of special guests, some Yoga teachers and practitioners and some not. And I'm looking forward to sharing these discussions with you as we explore topics such as social change in Yoga, decolonizing fitness, embodiment and consent, parenting and Yoga, and so much more. Anjali will be back this fall to resume for radical work on the podcast. Stay tuned for her much awaited return. And without further ado, here's our latest episode.
Hi, everyone, welcome back. I just wanted to give a quick notice at the top of this episode that there is some ableist language used in this conversation. And we wanted to name and acknowledge that, particularly the word crazy, is being used. And we had a conversation after we recorded about that word and how much we are in practice of not using it anymore, and challenging ableism in our word and, and beliefs, in our words and beliefs and actions. So I just wanted to name that at the top of this episode to recognize that there is ableist language in this conversation. And if for any reason you need to skip it or fast forward through any of those moments, take some breaths and take care of yourself in some way, I want to encourage you to do that. Now on to the episode. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I'm excited to be here today with my friend and guest today's conversation guest and I will let her speak about herself in a moment. But first, I just want to say this is, I believe, my last guest hosting episode on behalf of Anjali Rao, as she has taken the summer off for rest time and care time. And it's really, really, really been a pleasure to host this space on Anjali's behalf in her absence to support her and having that space to rest and to support this important work that she is doing and that we are all doing at Accessible Yoga. So thank you for listening to the episodes that I have been generously gifted the space to host over the last few months. And yeah, I think that's all I want to say about that, I look forward to staying in community with you in one way or another. Please stay in touch with me if you feel inclined to. And now on to today's conversation. So, the origin for this podcast conversation today came from a coffee date that we had. And I will let Emily, my guest here introduce yourself in a moment. But I just want to say briefly that we have been friends for a few years, and we're having coffee a couple months ago and talking about Yoga, and social justice, and parenting. And I was like, oh, we should have a Yoga of parenting podcast conversation. And I thought it was super unique and radical and revolutionary. And then I started to noticing that everybody's talking about the Yoga of parenting and that there's gonna be a book called The Yoga of Parenting. And so I will locate myself in naming that I am not coming up with some new radical idea. But I do think that this conversation is really important how we bring Yoga into parenting. And before we go any further, I also want to name a couple of things. And again, Emily will give more context to this. But, but we're going to approach this conversation from the lens too, of what it looks like to be in solidarity as a parent, as a human and as a practitioner, across lines of identity difference. And I just want to plug that for a moment, and we'll talk about that as we get further. Emily, please introduce yourself, say a little bit about who you are, what you do your name, your pronouns, whatever else you want to say.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:07:51
Thank you so much, Tristan. I'm I'm really happy to be here. Thank you for asking me to be here. And for that awesome coffee date. I remember that it was, it was pretty powerful. So yes, my name is Emily Dalsfoist. My pronouns are she/her. I'm a cisgendered woman, white bodied, parent. I consider myself a mother. I'm a Yoga practitioner, Yoga facilitator, a body lover, a nature lover. My greatest teacher is the earth, the elements, so that is very important in my practice, my spiritual practice and my parenting practice. And my Yoga practice. Yeah, I'm a Cancer sun. I am an Aquarius rising. I have a Capricorn moon. So that makes it a little interesting. I was it was reflected to me like, my cancer sun. I like feel so much. But my Capricorn moon makes it a little complex, because I like to compartmentalize my feelings and like make them logical, which is impossible. Feelings aren't logical. So it's yeah, that's I think that's, that's it. I'm just really, really grateful to be here and all the complexity of being with my privilege and proximity to different points of power and talking about Yoga in this space, in a space like this, a radical space like this. So I'm just really humbled and honored. And yeah, thank you. Thank you deeply grateful.
Tristan Katz 14:09:33
Yeah. Likewise, how did you come to practice and then ultimately teach Yoga, Emily.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:09:41
This is a great...well, I was just about to say, this is a great story, but like, I'm not gonna set it up that way. I practiced a little bit. I'm from Alaska, which is a big part of my identity, as well. I was born and raised there in Anchorage. And so in Alaska, I practiced for a little bit. I invited by a friend, but pretty infrequently. And then it wasn't until I moved to Portland, in 2006, my sister invited me to like 6am, hot power vinyasa practices, which I just fell in love with. I was like 6am every morning before work, like just super into it, because of the physicality, I had never been brought into my body (I have those words for it, now, I didn't at that time), but so, so deeply. And while my practice has definitely shifted away from from that. I won't say away, but just in different places, now. That was a big starting point for me, but what kept me going was the clarity after the practice, the release of stored memories like I would have just like deep memories come up in the, in class. And I was just really curious about that. Like, whoa, I didn't I didn't remember this happened. This is crazy. What does this mean, you know, and I've always been a very curious person and reflective person. I have journaled ever since, you know as a kid. So that was like my meditation for a long time and my self reflection, looking at patterns of thought and, and things like this. So that's how I came to Yoga. And how I began to teach Yoga was, I remember the moment I was with a teacher, Sandra Gainey, I think that she still teaches yoga (I that hope she does). And I was in class and we were doing something where like tree pose or something where the balancing pose with your hands at heart center, and then she guided us to move our arms as a class with the breath. And so it was a pretty, you know, for power, vinyasa class, quote, unquote, simple movement, vinyasa thing. And I was struck by the energy in the room. And again, I didn't really know how to name this at the time, but the energy shifted, and there was, I felt what I now know, like Yoga is the interconnectedness of all things. I just felt so connected with the people in the room. I just felt like, and now I also know that you know, moving together in a group, bodies moving together heals trauma. It regulates our nervous system, it's just like such a powerful thing. And I, in my peripheral vision, I could see Sandra sitting down and just witnessing this. And I was like, I, I want to do that. I want to witness this magic because I don't know what just fuckin happened. But like, yeah, I don't know what just happened. I don't know what's going on. But I want to be in that, that place where I can kind of hold space like this. And I'd only been practicing for about a year and a half consistently. And so I came to like a like, they were doing a teacher training at the studio I was going to, and they had a time to come for questions and things like that, and to learn more about the training and stuff. And I went, and that was my question. And I remember being like, I'm not good enough. But I love Yoga. I'm like, in it. And I remember the teacher, her name is Sarah Kurtz, and she was like, What do you, tell me about your favorite Yoga teacher? And so I, you know, told her about my favorite Yoga teacher. And she's like, You didn't say anything about how good they were at Yoga, like of the physical practice of Yoga, you didn't say how long they've been practicing. And I will also want to add that I do think that experience has, has its place, you know. And it was really nice to be supported in that way. And I felt like, okay, cool. I can do this, I can teach in this way. And I felt pretty confident and not speaking to things that I didn't know. You know, I was like, okay, cool. I know that I'm still super new. And this is a lifelong practice. And but I want to do this, and I feel like I would love to hold space or create containers for for this type of movement and energetic work, really. And healing work, and liberation work now like that I have all these different ways of speaking to what Yoga is. So yeah, that's how I came to Yoga and began teaching.
Tristan Katz 14:14:55
I'm curious if you can recall, at what point you understood that Yoga was more than Asana. I mean, I hear you speaking to that, in terms of what you're observing energetically in the room, but like, at what point in somebody mention, like, the Gita or the Sutras, or what point were you introduced to the philosophical eight limbs, you know?
Emily Dalsfoist 14:15:17
Yeah. That was in my teacher training. And the, the teachers that I had, we had a few different teachers, and one, James Grant, was super into the history and like, talked extensively about the history of Yoga, the timeline and the changes, and the philosophy. And then I also mentioned Sarah and she gave me BKS Iyengar 's book Light on Yoga, and Light on Life, actually Light on Life was like the first entry point into that whole realm. I'm trying to think of that that's that's the first time. I remember somebody speaking to the energetic body chakras. And when and feeling that so viscerally. I think that was the first one. So you know, and I think that was in a class that I, that I took, at some point, and especially when we got to the throat, the energetic center of the throat, and I remember being like, I can feel that in my body, what it what is this, like, energetic realm. And so that was a great entry point to the limbs of Yoga. It's like, okay, so this is the physical piece, and then there's the energetic piece, and then what else is there? And that's what really fueled my teaching. So I love creating the web of like, philosophical or an idea, and bringing it through the body and into a class and like talking about all the different layers. Yeah.
Tristan Katz 14:17:04
Yeah. Okay. And then at what point? I probably, part of me is asking these questions now based on my own experience, too, as a white person navigating Yoga in the United States and falling in love with hot Yoga and like, and then waking up to the reality that like, there's so much more than Asana. And so I'm curious if you recall, because I have these like, kind of like, I don't know, these moments in my history, where I'm like, "that was a turning point. And that was a turning point." I'm curious if you can recall your, to me, my next turning point apart from realizing and learning and being told that Yoga is more than Asana, my next turning point was understanding my own relationship to Yoga through my privilege, and the fact that I had not yet fully come to terms with who was in the room and who wasn't in the room? And where are these practices from? And how I've benefited from the harm caused, etc, etc. So I'm curious, do you have another moment like that where you started to wake up to your privilege in the conversation about Yoga and wake up to the teachings in relationship to social justice?
Emily Dalsfoist 14:18:08
Yeah, thank you for that question, Tristan. Yes, I do. I am laughing because I just, it was a very powerful moment, in my I was teaching, I was teaching a class for Living Yoga, which was a nonprofit in Portland. And I went, I eventually went through their, their teacher training and, and, but before, like, how I came to find them was I worked at a hotel, boutique hotel, and was like moonlighting as a Yoga instructor. So I would work there during the day and then teach at night. And we had a like, World Yoga Day or some thing like that. And we partnered with Living Yoga, and I got to teach a class. And so I, I, like taught a class, I did not do my research in like, who this community served. And like I just learned so much about, about that in the class, I had a, I co taught with somebody who did a meditation, a Yoga nidra meditation at the end. And I realized very quickly that what I had, like I had this beautiful flow in mind was, you know, all of these things. And I'm really glad that I was able to shift. You know, I can't remember how long I had been teaching, but it wasn't very long, but I was able to shift and be like, Oh, my sequence, this is not gonna work like this is just not, this is just not doable. And that was my moment of realizing my ableism. So like, my able bodied, thinking that everybody could come and take these, you know, that was like the beginning of realizing all of my points of privilege, and then realizing who's in the studio that I'm practicing at and what they're talking about, and the teacher training, like what they're saying to talk about and not talk about. And yeah, that was like the beginning point and taking the Living Yoga teacher training with my dear teacher, Angelina, amazing human. And then Michelle Cassandra Johnson very shortly thereafter, and her book Skill and Action was like, once. I don't know if you've felt this in a little bit about your story if you want to share it yourself. But once my eyes were open to that little peek, I was curious about like, oh, okay, this is the thing that I really need, I want to, and I feel like I need to something that a Yoga practitioner, I feel like I need to be aware of, and lean into and look more into and listen. Now that was a point of like, okay, part of teaching is really listening. And part of being, in my opinion, a good facilitator is witnessing, who's there and who's not and who knew, you know, of just all of the things of closing my mouth, and sitting back, being like, Okay, I have a lot to learn. I knew that and now I even have more to learn. And so yeah, that was that class. I will not, I will not forget, and I will not forget the graciousness of the people that were there. And they just, you know, were just so kind.
Tristan Katz 14:21:36
You, do you remember whether or not you felt anxiety or nerves in that moment when you realized that the sequence you had prepared wasn't going to work for the bodies in the room?
Emily Dalsfoist 14:21:45
Yeah. Oh, I just felt I felt terrible. Yeah, really. I felt like, I was I'm questioning the use of ashamed but because it seems pretty big for for me in that moment. I had in my body feels such a great question. I could feel it in my chest, I can feel it on my chest. And I'm just there was so much love for the people there. And I saw how hard they were working and I saw myself in a moment of (I was having a hard time putting it into words), it was a very clear path forward though. Like I there, it wasn't like, part of myself wanted to curl up in a ball and like never teach Yoga again. And part of myself was like, this is the best opportunity for me right now. This is, this is it. This is like why I practice Yoga. Yeah.
Tristan Katz 14:21:45
And yes, I had, in my story a similar, a similar moment with Michelle's first book in which everything changed. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I see so many white, cis women, Yoga teachers wake up to the cultural appropriation, for example, and then realize that maybe they shouldn't teach it. Like they should leave, right? I'm curious if you have things to say about that. I know, it wasn't a question that we planned to discuss. But I'm feeling like it's relevant.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:23:44
Yeah, yeah, I think it is relevant. And I appreciate the question, because I think it, I want to talk about it. I think it needs to be talked about, even if I am wrong, I'm like, really open and expecting to be wrong. So...
Tristan Katz 14:24:04
That's some Yoga right there, Emily.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:24:07
And, you know, we can get to this later. But parenting has really, really just, like, instilled it, like, I'm gonna fuck up. And I can't let that stop me from living, you know, because that doesn't help anything. And doing what I think is, is the next right step, you know? So your question is, yeah, I thought a lot about not teaching Yoga, I've tried to change what, like how I define my classes, like movement classes, embodiment classes. And while I like all of that, what really has struck me is that is my love for Yoga, like the eight limbs, the route from South Asia, like the forest, the earth, like the teachings that I've received from South Asian people, and this, the ancient practice that we can still find benefit from today in this modern body in this modern world. That is what I am called to, to offer. And I feel like trying to name it something else is it's like cultural appropriation in and of itself. And trying to you know, so I really, I feel, really, I feel like it's important to cite my sources and like, name where I learned things. So I want to name Yoga as like, this is a practice that has changed, my life has changed my parenting has changed my relationships. And that's what I feel passionate about. So, so that's where I'm at. I'm like, back to the I'm gonna call it Yoga, because that's where I learned. That's what I learned to study.
Tristan Katz 14:25:50
Yeah, I'm wondering, in this moment, if we, particularly as white people are avoiding accountability, to the practice and to ourselves and to the teachings if when we, when we take it, when we benefit from it, and we call it Yoga until we realize maybe we're stealing it, and then we should just stop calling it Yoga and call it something else that feels like we're avoiding accountability to the exact work that we're trying to lean into doing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:26:26
So, I was just gonna say if I'm told to do to, like not teach Yoga anymore like that. I'm totally fine with that. I just want to also say that too, like, is that something that needs to happen to further the movement of liberation for all beings? I don't, that's cool. I'm in, no problem.
Tristan Katz 14:26:44
I was just gonna cue us into talking about the Yoga of parenting, which by the way, this podcast episode will not be called the Yoga of parenting. It was originally going to be called the Yoga of parenting until I knew that everybody was doing that. But I do want to hear, and you've already said, like the the Yoga comes into your role as a parent, and I even hear you talking about, like, part of what I hear you doing is the humility the getting out of your own way kind of thing, which I feel like is a lot of the mindfulness and the, the, like big muscle lifting that we have to do that relate to the deeper teachings right? But I wonder if you can talk about how, how you see Yoga and parenting coming together?
Emily Dalsfoist 14:27:34
Yes, I would like to say I, I just see Yoga as a practice that weaves into everything that I do. So to me, it's hard to be like, like take it out of parenting. Like, why wouldn't it just be another extension of my Yoga practice, you know. But the sweet, sweet moment I had with, with one of my great greatest teachers Angelina is very soon after I had Meandhra, I think it was, I don't know, like a week, maybe even less, she came over and brought food just like the best person in the world. And saw Meandhra and she looked at me and was like, here's your new teacher. And that just like it's gonna make me cheer up a little bit right now. Feeling big emotions, because I knew that. And then hearing that from my teacher, my mentor, I was like, You're so right. And that's just been so true. And what I feel like is the deepest part of it is that, I'm probably going to cry because it's so beautiful, and I don't, I don't care if, you know, I just cry all the time. And it's okay. But the and it's, I don't know, it sounds cheesy, maybe but the love, like Yoga has brought me into such a deep state of love. Because I believe that love is the thread that connects all things like love is where we came from. Love is where we're gonna go back to this is my belief is my spiritual belief. And Meandhra has opened up my heart in ways that I just like, leave me speechless. And I don't even know how to exist in the way of of love and also fierce love, like remembering the different phases of love, the boundary love, the playful love, the the really serious love, the protective love, you know, all of these things. And so, bringing it back to Yoga, I feel like it's a nervous system practice for me to be able to hold the amount of love that I am, that I have as a human being, and as a spiritual being. And so my Yoga practice is like a nervous system practice at least the embodiment piece and meditation piece I find to and to be able to hold more love. And my parenting has allowed me to do that. And the other piece of it is just a reminder of the web, the weaving of the future and also of the past, like it's a crazy, crazy thing to be reparenting myself as I'm parenting my child, because things come up. As I remember this one time, I was jealous of Meandhra for me letting them have a tantrum. I was like so mad that they were having a tantrum. But I knew as a parent, I have decided, like, I'm not going to try to curtail your emotional expression, I can guide it in a safe way. You know, like, of course, the safety and age appropriate, whatever. But I'm not gonna try to stop it. Like, I'm gonna be here. I'm not gonna let you hit me or anybody else, you know. And I was like, so pissed off. And I had to reflect, I was like, Emily, why are you so pissed. And I don't know if this is true or not, I haven't really talked to my mom or dad about it. But I imagine that I was not allowed to do that. And so I had to like reparent myself, in a way like to let myself at an appropriate moment have time, and I actually have done that, like gone into another room and appropriate time. In the evening, I have a practice where I just get to throw a tantrum. And it feels really good. That's my Yoga parenting is like going into a different room and giving myself the opportunity for a tantrum.
Tristan Katz 14:31:58
For a tantrum, there you go, that's all you need.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:32:01
My kid is almost two, so I wanted to you know. And I have one child, so I'm new with this. Yeah.
Jivana Heyman 14:32:12
Hi, everyone. I just want to pop in here really quick and remind you about our sponsor, Offering Tree. As Yoga teachers, we our own business managers, website designers and producers. It's a lot. And Offering Tree offers an all in one platform that makes it easy to succeed while we're doing all the things and I just like to say that through this partnership with The Love of Yoga Podcast, Offering Tree has shown that it's committed to supporting accessibility and equity in the Yoga world. Offering tree is a public benefit corporation and they're driven by a mission of wellness accessibility, which we share with them at Accessible Yoga as an Offering Tree user, you'll get to join a supportive educational community. And you'll also get free webinars with top experts in wellness and entrepreneurship. And of course, you get a discount. So go to offering tree.com/accessibleyoga to learn more, and to get your discount. Okay, let's go back to the episode.
Tristan Katz 14:33:13
So, you know, the other thing that's coming up, in my mind is, is back to the conversation you and I had over coffee. And we were, if I remember this correctly, we were talking about, do you want to share first? You have made the choice. And even choice feels weird right now to use that word, but you have you've chosen or decided to raise Meandhra, and I don't know what you want to call it, or if you have language for it. Culturally, we tend to call it gender creative parenting, which is also kind of weird. But but but you have made a choice to not assign a gender. Do you want to say that, speak to that in your own words, because I don't want to put words in your mouth, and then I'll tie back to the coffee conversation.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:34:02
Yeah, cool. I think I have a feeling, I feel like I know where you're going with that. But yeah, we've I know it to be called gender creative, as well. We were talking with our doula about it. And they suggested a book called Raising Them and I said gender creative. And I was like, That's it. That's cool, gender creative. And tell me a little bit more about that. So I'm really grateful for Megan sharing this, this path with us, which I feel like is, to me, it's a no brainer, because I feel like that's how, that's truth. Like what what we shared a little bit at the coffee conversation, is because it's like how the world is. To put it very simply, the I'm laughing because I have a lot of people in my circles that are, just don't don't believe that and or like tried to push back. And honestly, I don't believe but they just tried to push back on that. That's not how the world is.
Tristan Katz 14:35:06
I want to be clear, let's get really clear. And so the folks who are pushing back when they say that's not how the world is, you're referring to the fact that we can't know gender?
Emily Dalsfoist 14:35:17
Thank you. Yes, yes. Yeah, that we can't assign. Like, if a child has a certain genitalia, we don't know that they are this gender, you know. So yes, thank you for for asking for that.
Tristan Katz 14:35:31
Yeah, like there's this this tension between what you see is true, and what maybe some of the folks in your community or social sphere see as true and their truth is true for them. Your truth is true for you. You feel that this is Satya to raise Meandhra with they/them pronouns and to give them the space to grow up and claim their identity, as far as gender is concerned.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:35:57
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it's beautiful in that it, like this practice as a cisgendered person, raised in a very binary world, it allows me the opportunity to untangle those internalized beliefs, practices, ideas, and I get to question my own stories that I have about situations or you know, a gender my own gender, female, I get to question that all the time and I get to expand on what that means. What it means to be a woman what it means to be raising a child with they/them pronouns. It's just, I I enjoy it. I love exploration. I love curiosity and I think that it also just makes the world a better place. To let people, yeah, to let people show them who you are, who they are to let people, like not assume that I know just because I helped birth this person that I know all about them and it's just really, I don't know, it's just a lot. I'm going to reframe this it's a lot easier to do, like it's it's just easy. Just easy to do because I feel like it's in alignment with with truth, with Satya.
Tristan Katz 14:37:41
Yeah, when you said that to me over coffee my mind kind of exploded. Cuz I like of course, of course. Like I'm a Trans person. Of course. This is Satya, and, you know, our culture doesn't teach that this is true. And in popular, mainstream Yoga spaces, this is not held as true, generally speaking, right? And so I'm I'm thinking, I mean, I heard you say, I can't remember the way you worded it, you just said something about how, on some level this is easy or easeful. And it also requires you to advocate and educate on Meadhra's behalf. Will you say something about that?
Emily Dalsfoist 14:38:29
Yeah, well, first of all, I, I learned a lot from you, as a, as a Trans person, I learned a lot from my, from the people, the community, it takes a community to raise a child. It takes, and I think it takes a community of people across lines of difference. And because I am not the person to educate people on like, you know, Trans or non binary feelings, you know, that's just not who I am right now as, as a person with my gender identity. So I, yes, there's a little bit of education. And I just feel like that is my place. Like, duty is such a weird word. I don't know if that really sums it up. But it's just, we talked a bit before about points of privilege, and proximity to power and advantage and things like this. And so I feel like it's just, it's my path, it's like, this is my path to do, this is something that I can do. And I have more emotional capacity to do it because of my identity. And so it's something that I need, I should do, you know. Sometimes it's taxing some and so there's that complexity in there to like, even with my points of privilege, I can still, I still need to take care of myself, and turn somebody to educate themselves on this subject, if I don't have the emotional capacity, or the energetic capacity to do so. And working through that, too. So, yeah, yeah,
Tristan Katz 14:40:19
I see you. And I think it's like, I see part, I see something similar in between. In both of us, I see something in you feels reflective of me, how do I want to word this? And what I, what I think I'm feeling or what I'm observing is like the turning towards the hard thing, you're turning towards the like, messy, intense, maybe more like, uncomfortable, right? Cuz I think it can be very easy with some of the privileges that you and I both share, I'm thinking particularly of like our whiteness or our thinness, like, it can be very easy to be told, hey, you've got privilege, you should figure out something about that, right? Like you should do something with that you should leverage that you should be in relationship with it, you should whatever be in inquiry, you should do something, right, take action. It's so easy to be told that but to feel all of the things that prevent us from actually living into it, right? Like the guilt, the shame, the fear that I don't want to get it wrong, I don't want to say the wrong thing. You know, and so we just a lot of people just keep going to sleep over and over and over again, or staying asleep or not waking up or whatever metaphor you want to use. And what I think is so cool is to witness you, and to be in it with you. Like the turning towards the having the hard conversation, the being in the discomfort that gets to the showing up for the thing, even though it's really scary to do the thing. I feel like you and I are both doing that from two very different perspectives, given our identities, but also there's a commonality given some of our identities, it's just me. Again, this is a very selfish conversation. I just wanted to spend an hour talking to you about what it means to be in relationship with all of these questions, right? And not just questions, but like how, how do you use, turn towards your privilege responsibly when it comes to raising a child and also being in integrity with the practice of Yoga, right? Like, and it's me, my brain wants to say like, wow, that's a lot. That's hard. That's messy. That's uncomfortable. You don't seem to be having an uncomfortable, messy, hard time though. You seem like you're like, Ah, this is this can be uncomfortable sometimes over there. I know how to resource. Like, this is what I hear. I know how to resource and care for myself, even when shit is uncomfortable or hard. I'm just wondering, I'm rambling, but I wanted to reflect that back.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:42:50
That I mean, thank you that I'm going to, I take what you said as a as a high compliment. That feels really good to be seen in that way. I also am smiling, because that's like the practice, though, I'm not...
Tristan Katz 14:43:12
You are doing it, not all of us are doing it!
Emily Dalsfoist 14:43:15
But no, I'm laughing because I like, it feels uncomfortable. And sometimes I hide, sometimes I don't do what I need to do. Sometimes I don't go into the uncomfortable situation, even when I should. Sometimes I'm like, you know, I, I fuck up all the time, and I could do more, right? And, I know that, you know, the characteristics of white supremacy like, "do more," "more is progress," perfectionism, sense of urgency, all these things I do, I really do. And they're in me and I, and I can see them and and what we what came up when you were when you were speaking, Tristan, about being in relationship with the uncomfortability and with people that I am, like, introducing, maybe this is just gender creative is new, maybe they don't even know this concept of more than two genders. You know, all of what I keep coming back to is love. Is how how can I be more skillful? And I've learned so much from Michelle, about about this about and evoke from from about this like how can I love them more than they're loving themselves right now by having these really challenging, and in my perspective, harmful ways of going about life in certain, certain ways. So my I have not always been kind or compassionate to the people that are pushing back against the way I'm raising Meandhra and that's my practice is remembering like, I mess up all the time and intention and impact, the difference. It is. And just being in the compassionate heart of it all again, what Yoga teaches us is remembering...what do I want to say here? Like going deeper and trusting in the Ananda Maya Kosha, like the bliss body, the the natural state of us all? The deepest part and speaking with with that, and that's my practice with with like, gender creative parenting and raising Meandhra in this way and navigating relationships in my social and familial fears that that bump up against each other.
Tristan Katz 14:46:03
Yeah, I hear Michelle saying it in the words of like, remembering to see one another's humanity or humaneness like Yeah, exactly.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:46:12
Yeah, exactly.
Tristan Katz 14:46:14
Yeah, easier said than done. Totally. Like how can I love you while you cause me harm? Or how can I keep loving you while you cause my kiddo harm or while you cause harm to my friends or my chosen family or? And yet here I am still loving you. Yeah, you just give me posted. I'll be over here watching from afar! let me know how it goes for you, Emily!
Emily Dalsfoist 14:46:49
I will and I'll be like Fuck, man. It's not going so well.
Tristan Katz 14:46:56
Is there anything you want to share or say about your work your offerings or anything about what we've talked about so far or anything we haven't talked about that you haven't gotten to say? Hmm, like final words, final thoughts or things that people might want to know about? Coming up?
Emily Dalsfoist 14:47:15
If there's anything final thought there is there is so much about, I can't wait to read. I didn't know that there was a book coming out called Yoga of Parenting. I can't wait to read it.
Tristan Katz 14:47:29
I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure I saw it on social media. As soon as I spoke the words out into the world, Google and the phone were listening and they were like find this book! That's what happened. I'm pretty sure the book is written by a white, cis woman and so we need we need more of those. Totally. I can only say that in Anjali's space. Thank you Anjali and Accessible Yoga and Love of Yoga for allowing me the space to make bad jokes.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:47:59
Oh my god. Well, that's what I felt like about this podcast too. I was like, okay, yes, I'm sure that this is, you know, invited. That's, that's okay. And also, I am I am this cis white woman Yoga teacher. Yeah, mom of one.
Tristan Katz 14:48:17
Yeah, all the complexity, yeah.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:48:18
Yeah, mom of one that's like not even two years old. I'm going to talk about talk about parenting. And I do have stories, you know, like we talked about a little bit before, before we started recording the the complexity of that, like, my stories are still valid. And I think it's important to be aware of my lens of these stories, you know? So so both are true. And that's like, pulling apart the binary, right? That's like, yes, and both are true. We don't know if this child's you know, how their gender expression and anyway, I can go on about getting into the chaos of the unknown, and also the importance of boundaries and you know, things like, like this. I am so grateful for you, Tristan, and all of who you are. And I'm grateful for Anjali for allowing you to and asking you to take over the podcast while while she is away. And I'm just starting to teach again. So that's, that's what I'll say I'm teaching at a Perinatal Yoga Studio in Portland, Oregon. I guess more than like talking about my offerings. I just really want to offer gratitude to my teachers. And particularly, Michelle Cassandra Johnson was named. Angelina the Seaway was named. There's a book called Revolutionary Mothering written by Alexis Pauline Gumbs is one of the editors but it's written by a whole bunch of mothers and they're all People of Color, the global majority. And it's so beautiful. It's such a beautiful book about the complexity of mothering and the challenge and anyway so Revolutionary Mothering was huge, Braiding Sweetgrass, nature. I'm looking down because I'm thinking about all the things...my ancestors, my mother, and then also naming where I am located in Portland, Oregon, now known as Portland, Oregon. So it's the place of indigenous people of Multnomah Clackamas, Kaulitz and other native nations. I think there's so many teachers, but I just love to hold space for for the lineage of in the lineage of Yoga, like, I think that's how I want to end, like gratitude, gratitude, and may this conversation be part of the liberation for all beings. And yeah, that's just a pleasure to be here and have the space to talk about complexity and Yoga and all the things
Tristan Katz 14:51:32
Likewise, thank you for joining and for calling all of the teachers and beings into the space even though I know that they were here the whole conversation, you naming brought them in further, so thank you. Yeah, thanks, Emily. This was really lovely.
Emily Dalsfoist 14:51:47
Thank you, Tristan, likewise.
Tristan Katz 14:51:56
Thanks so much for listening to the show. Please be sure to subscribe rate and review wherever you're listening. And we'll look forward to joining you again soon for our next conversation.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
